Hi, please

15 Comments

  1. Jason 14:22, Dec 6th, 09

    I enjoyed “The Death of the University” and many of the viewpoints that it entertains. Educational methods have definitely not changed very much over the years. Speaking for myself, up until I began MCC classes, there has been virtually no difference in educational methods from about first grade on (pre school and kindergarted included finger painting!). I would even argue that my earlier education, which encouraged much more self directed learning and self-discovery, has been more effective in shaping me. As soon as 2nd grade hit and the creative ventures came to a halt, it all became boring and monotonous. The broadcast model only works in certain situations; being discouraged from speaking is simply not an effective model for learning. Being that I’m a very hands on, physical learning type of person, I’ve always had difficulty with mathematics beyond algebra/geometry because the concepts simply became too abstract for me to internalize in a “watch the teacher do math problems on the board” kind of way.

    In Computer Lib/Dream Machines, the great Ted Nelson asserts that computers have the ability to evolve and become the great liberating force in education (in 1975…!). They’ve obviously evolved enough, but they seem to be underutilized for learning purposes. Nelson believes that education as it is practiced is cold and rigid, and that our careers/areas of expertise are the subjects that are ruined for us last (because all subjects are, eventually, ruined for us). While this is obviously extreme, I do agree to a point. A great deal of my education is self-education, picked up online and through personal reading.

    While the university obviously needs to make changes for the benefit of society, I doubt that they’re in any real danger. The fact of the matter is that, for the vast, vast majority, intelligence needs to be legitimized by the diploma. That is the method that society has prescribed to us. Very rarely does one get ahead in our society without an acceptable amount of legitimized education. If we really expect universities to evolve, society must evolve first. This is a top-down problem.

    I sort of rediscovered the joy of serendipity during my technological backtracking during thanksgiving break, and I agree that individualization has its pros and cons. For example, without the newspaper, how would people conceptualize a mass public? If we’re to keep society from becoming over-fragmented, personalization of education can only occur to a point. This is necessary to promote a critical point of view. Personalization is only possible in certain forums. For instance, the criminal justice system would no doubt be much more effective if cases were analyzed only on a subjective basis rather than within precedent and certain social confines, however if that were the case, there would be no such thing as objectivity and the system would crumble. In order to keep the system afloat, it would require too many resources to be feasible. Again, I see the author’s concern, but I don’t see his “worst case scenario” coming to light – as long as education remains an institution (which it will).

  2. Mushon 15:51, Dec 6th, 09

    Very good summary. It seems you enjoyed writing it and choosing images to decorate it through. I wonder what are your take on the (to some degree opposite) views expressed by the two readings and how you see your own education in that context. (a question to both Melissa and the rest of you)

  3. harlo 21:13, Dec 6th, 09

    i haven’t finished reading it all yet, but my blood is already boiling… both authors once again presenting “chicken little” logic, replete with vague and hardly-substantiated hypotheses of a future-to-come, and the dangerous and insulting tendency to boil down an entire generation to a glib description (“digital natives”, anyone?) of cybernauts who can traverse the vast spaces of the internet all the way “from Google to Wikipedia”. ugh.

  4. gorditamedia 04:13, Dec 7th, 09

    What Harlo said!

    At my undergraduate institution, I was stuck with a professor in the English department who refused to teach with any other style than the fad at the time, “cooperative learning.” This was pre-Internet hoopla, and yet, she treated her classroom like it was a co-op cathedral. I dared to blaspheme and asked her privately if she might give a lecture or two. I even quoted her dissertation to sort of give her a clue as to what I might like to learn about. She gave one lecture the entire quarter and prefaced it, “This one is for Camille.” (Picture Lauren’s fist in the air!)

    If I had wanted to learn from my peers, and only my peers, I wouldn’t have paid nearly so much for the credits. Same goes for the Internet. Although I agree with Jason’s “get the piece of paper” reality, I would also like to tell these powers that be, that there is actually a huge demand for great professors, you’re just not listening to it, nor taking enough of the 100k from many of us to pay the faculty well/have enough of them.

    Again, as Jason pointed out well, we like to learn certain ways, and many of us probably like a variety of ways, yet we stopped getting what we want in many schools. As Harlo suggested, we are not some giant digitized blob, not a bunch of cyber-addicts mainlining the Internet. All of these authors seem to suggest a “right way” of teaching to the “new” student body. Well, this body would like to tell them that the problem isn’t a lack of technology, or a surplus of tech, or too much diversity, or not enough, it is with this absolutist nonsense! Mix it up! Let your cannons hang out. Party with the feminists! Give me your blogs, your wikis, AND your huddled lectures yearning to breathe free.

    Speaking of mixing it up, I have a funny story about why I didn’t apply to Columbia, but if you remind me, I’ll say it in class, and give your eyes a break.

  5. Anu 19:51, Dec 7th, 09

    I find it sort of funny to assert that the internet will erase the importance of institutions of higher education–in many if not most cases, it’s academics from these very institutions who are posting the most in-depth and useful pieces on various subjects, because they come from an environment that encourages hyper-focused research. Additionally, a significant number of professors enter the university environment only after becoming experts in their field – this is commonly seen in business schools.

    As for the supremacy of hands-on media learning to the old school lecture, I’m with those who think this is kind of a silly comparison. The more ways we find for people to learn, great– but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the old ways are immediately rendered ineffective. Whether a third grader learns her multiplication tables the old school way– by rote memorization– or by some cute video game with bunnies and puppies, it’s still about ultimate effectiveness. Just because the video game is the more enjoyable way for a child to learn those tables now, rote memorization– which is all about quick, unthinking recall– may actually be the method that serves her best long term.

  6. Gabriel Mugar 00:45, Dec 8th, 09

    Just a quick anecdote, In 2007 I attended a conference at Harvard on the future of the university. While one of the issues was the political economy of how the open university would sustain itself, one of the bigger topics up for discussion was the issue of prestige and how an institution would sustain this if the open model prevailed. Many of the people who were so excited about being affiliated with Harvard seemed to have issues with the open model. This is where I could see Lanier siding with the people who are all about Harvard remaining an institution that only those who are accepted benefit from. I found it shocking. Were they not aware their neighbor MIT was striking a decent balance between students who applied to be part of the institution and Open Courseware? (BTW check out the open course ware for the core course for MIT’s media studies program and you’ll see that it features a ton of readings from MCC professor lisa gittleman…)
    To Sunsteins relentless pursuit of arguing the internet balkanizes interest groups, a good read on the value of reflexive technology design would ease his concerns. Implementing reflexive design technology would prevent balkanization in customized online education.

  7. Gabriel Mugar 00:54, Dec 8th, 09

    To the previous comments (specifically Gordita), are you knocking seymour paperts constructivist method of education? While you may not have liked how your professor pulled it off, I hope that you are not throwing the whole idea out. While I like listening to what profs have to say, I can say that I am a big advocate of this method as it pushes for a world of proactive people rather than consumers. Teaching through problem solving is far more effective and better for the future of civilization rather than just pumping people with information.

  8. sava 01:57, Dec 8th, 09

    this week’s readings made me laugh and cry.

    to be honest, I’m a little past the whole reacting to these things strongly. mainly because I think that what writers like this are doing is presenting a point of view – just one point of view – and I think both these points are valid, if only because they make us think and react!

    first, Tapscott’s article was interesting. reminded me of the ‘banking’ method that Freire talked about, and Dewey talked about before him.

    from everything I’ve been reading in my programs, I can’t tell you how many articles I’ve read (many lovely ones by Seymour Papert) which talk of new pedagogical styles that will change the face education. and some of these were written in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s! if only even half of these were applied! fortunately, some of these ARE being applied; unfortunately, they are often in charter and private schools (not necessarily talking about universities). when I started reading about the wonderful things that ‘technology’ would do for education, it made my heart happy. and then realizing that reality was something quite different, made me sad. enough about that…

    I do want to say that the one thing that was not really stressed was EVALUATION and the way that students are ASSESSED. yes, the pedagogical styles definitely need to change (and there are changing! slowly, but I still have hope =)) but I also think that the way we as a society assess success or productivity also has to change. it is not just the educational institutions who propagate this – we all do. maybe an ‘exploit’ instigated by students will break through the current network structures? but I also know that there are progressive teachers who follow more ‘experimental’ methods of teaching and I also believe that this will increase, slowly but surely.

    to Sunstein’s piece… wow. I see his point, I do. but I see it more in a social context. to apply it to education is taking it a little… too far. to me, ’studying’ something means looking at it from all sides. yes, we might go to a more ‘liberal’ school, but that doesn’t mean we don’t look at all sides of a story. while researching or reading up on anything, we all look up the author, other authors, references, pros, cons, arguments for, arguments against… that’s what academia is about, that’s what scholarship means!

    I agree to some extent with some of the comments above – I too took a class with a very respected person in my field, only to have ’student presenters’ every week who also designed an activity around the topic and the professor never spoke. he was someone who had been there from the beginning, had been an instrumental force in a lot of the movements in the field, but I never once got to hear him talk about his experiences, never got his viewpoints on some of the stuff we read. what a sad sad waste. and of course, he was too busy a person to randomly hang out and chat with.

    having said that, there have been other classes I have taken where the professor set up the class for discussion – encouraged student participation, guided the discussion so skillfully, provided valuable insight, took us on a path of discovery… and at the end we realized we had LEARNED. that we understood. and it was cool because this professor would tell us anecdotes about the people we read, talked about what it was like being around these people, presented her views as questions, not as sermons. she was a partner in our construction of knowledge.

    yay constructionism!
    class discussions are going to be interesting =)

  9. Alison 12:57, Dec 8th, 09

    I actually remember being pretty furious about this NYT Op-Ed when it was printed. Agreed with Harlo about the Chicken Little logic – we’ve been hearing stories like this forever. But it’s interesting to read this now that I’m back in school.

    While I don’t necessarily agree with Taylor’s extreme opinion that “universities are losing their monopoly on higher learning,” or are becoming obsolete, I do think he makes a fair point — that the ways people learn are changing. But this doesn’t necessarily make standard university practice, specifically traditional lecture, irrelevant. I am definitely open to the idea of collaborative and interactive approaches to learning, but much of it depends on how the individual student learns, and the subject being taught. Sometimes lectures work, sometimes a tool like this class blog is more appropriate. I think being open to constructivist education is important, and there should be a healthy balance of traditional and more innovative approaches to teaching/learning. Questioning education methods is not a bad thing.

    Another reason why I think universities are not going anywhere: Let’s not forget that college (at least, undergraduate) is not just about learning in the classroom — students also enroll for the “life experience.” This seems to be much more important for our generation than our parents’. Colleges are focusing much more on branding their campus lifestyle than ever before. I think it’s something that should be addressed when higher education is discussed.

  10. gorditamedia 14:00, Dec 8th, 09

    @Gabriel: I’m certainly not throwing the whole idea out–I advocate for variety and balance. Thus, I think it is equally dangerous to favor a problem solving method over an information pumping method. Both extremes do a disservice to students, and reflect issues found in society at large (e.g. collectivism or heroism run amok). I thought Anu’s example was a great one. Also, in my opinion, Mushon achieves a nice balance of peer discussion/production and information pumping. “No, Mushon, we don’t know what you’re talking about. Tell us!” :) I look forward to talking about it more with you and others!

  11. Franklin 15:38, Dec 8th, 09

    I understand the visceral reaction to claims that the University system, and the hyperbole claiming “The Impending Demise of the University”- rather over the top. The lecture model of university seems to be a big point of contention and then some, and based upon my own experience at a midsize university has varying degrees of effectiveness. Some tracts and fields are conducive, some not. I guess my question is what is the most you have gotten out of lecture without following it up with directed research after?

    I agree with Tapscott in that we are beginning to gather information in new ways through the wealth of knowledge gathered on the internet. I know personally I’ve become more adept at finding relevant info on the net and following it up outside of a classroom now. This shift doesn’t spell the end of the university and PhD’s, but marks a new way to draw on the experience of other…but where will that come from..dun dun dun.

    I think this class is an excellent example of this shift in gathering information and drawing on the resources available to us- a class that uses all of the knowledge of our classmates, led each week by our classmates, with discussion drawn on the independent work we’ve carried outside of the classroom. The readings we’ve done are rather brief in comparison to the depth and breadth of research carried out independently. We all contribute to our own understanding of the themes of the course. I think the Wiki will be a great example of this type of production.

  12. Craig Donahue 15:40, Dec 8th, 09

    Although I might agree that there is still room in education for us to use an assortment of teaching methods, new and old, in order to pass on knowledge, I would like to play devil’s advocate for a second. I would definitely put myself in an interactive only learning position, which is part of why I chose to do more interdisciplinary work for my undergrad (in Cultural Studies) and now here in MCC. And though our generation (and I can’t even use that properly in our context because our class actually comprises of a multitude of generations) seems to be in the middle of a conversion of some sort in the educational process, those kids still in the public (and private) school systems are getting much more access to digital media than we probably ever thought was possible when we were in their position; iPods, Pocket PCs, laptops, teaching software are all being used at a much larger rate than we ever had access to. (I remember when being called up to write on the transparency projector was cool because it was probably the most advanced piece of technology in the classroom) I agree that there can’t be a deterministic view of education in that because of all this new digital access that obviously education will go in that direction, but it will definitely have an impact in the manner in which students are going to be able to process information and turn it into knowledge. And hostility is bound to happen, it always does when change is proposed.

  13. Sara Hardwick 17:31, Dec 8th, 09

    I agree with basically everyone else: both readings have valid points, but both are too extreme. I’ve seen pedagogical trends come and go throughout my education, from new methods of memorization, to image-based learning, to CD-ROMs, to student-led learning. Every time, it’s going to be the new method! that will change! everything! forever!, and it never does. A few new valuable tools get incorporated into the arsenal, but mostly things go back to how things have always been taught. I think getting too caught up in these trends can be dangerous–I remember one year in elementary school it was all about doing these chants to memorize information (the Shirley Method, I think it was called). They never explained the information behind anything we were learning, but by God, we could recite every preposition. None of us had any idea what a preposition was, though. Which is not to say it wasn’t helpful–I can still name most of them, in alphabetical order–but had we added that to the old method of just explaining stuff, we would have learned a lot more.

    I’ve also had the experience where I’ve been in a class with an awesome professor who never said anything. I always get frustrated at that, if only because if there’s only one person in the room getting paid to teach, I would like them to actually teach me something, not the idiot from my dorm. But I’ve also had the experience of walking into a room, getting talked at for two hours, and then walking out. I don’t learn anything there either. But if we combine the two methods (much like happens in this class), it’s actually good!

    So I think any sort of “everything about education is wrong!”/”we should never try new things ever” reaction is fundamentally flawed. Both authors do have their points–the university system is flawed as Tapscott says, and it is important to have structure, as Sunstein says–but going too far in either way will only make things worse.

  14. Elisa Verna 19:18, Dec 8th, 09

    Damn, I actually liked the readings (somewhat, the Sunstein was a little kooky). I personally did pretty well navigating the “system” and playing the “game” throughout (especially) high school and undergrad. My younger sister, who just graduated high school (the same one as I did), pretty much failed everything except for art classes, and essentially shouldn’t have graduated high school (my father called the school and was basically like “can you please just graduate my daughter?” and they were like “o ok, better graduation rats for us!!!”), and is on the verge of dropping out of community college. She is BRILLIANT. She would probably contribute more to my grad. classes than I do, has a book collection that would put any English Lit. grad student to shame, and is an amazing painter. So naturally, I’ve come to question our public educational system. Why did I do well and my sister floundered?

    I don’t like the generalization that kids are little digi gurus, but I do like Tapscott’s idea that instructors should strive for a more “back and forth” approach within the classroom, rather than just lecturing, and that education should be tailored to individual learning styles. Having students choose what they want to learn about, however, is slightly ridiculous.

  15. Lauren Marie 20:36, Dec 8th, 09

    The more advanced our society becomes the higher level of education the average person achieves. The structure of the education system provides deadlines and goals from an authority source that. Learning styles are different and many off us need a classroom experience to learn effectively.

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